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The ACLU of Michigan has entered the legal fray surrounding gay marriage in Michigan, filing a lawsuit to require the state to recognize about 300 same-sex marriages performed last month during the 24-hour period gay marriage was legal in the state.
Taxpayers of Troy April 16, 2014 at 06:14 pm
Oh, and Tara, you're equivalence between same-sex marriage and polygamy is a bust too. Wanna knowRead More the difference? Easy, in one word: HARM. You homophones are so insistent that gay marriage is somehow, someway gonna harm you and your marriage. That was the crux of the case DeBoer case. And you know what happened when that garbage was run up the 'ol flag pole? It got smacked down. HARD. Because no matter how much you whine, you've got no clue. You point to some magical, imagined "harm" and scream like your hair is on fire. As for polygamy, I'm sure in your infinite "education" that you know all about the Canadian lawsuit over section 293 of the Criminal Code of Canada, which bans polygamy. In upholding the ban, the judge explained that polygamy causes harm to the women and children involved. The Judge reasoned that "women in polygamous relationships are at an elevated risk of physical and psychological harm. They face higher rates of domestic violence and abuse, including sexual abuse." So polygamy can be banned because it harms women and children. So another of your vaunted reasons to hate gay people hits the ground like a turd dropped from a 747. Care to try again or you gonna stfu?
McGurk April 16, 2014 at 06:15 pm
Dale M: "Seriously doubt if any on the left will defend two-person marriage, though. BecauseRead More as you note, it would be inconsistent with “tolerance” and “diversity.” I am not on the left, but like many you perceive to be on the left, I support two-person marriage. Man-woman. Man-man. Woman-woman. All for it. Glad to hear that you support two-person marriage as well. That is fantastic. Go forth and spread the word. Thank you!
Daffy Noodnicks April 16, 2014 at 06:51 pm
Dale: support for gay marriage is not confined to "the left". Your off topic selfRead More promotion is loaded with refutations that you ignore. Gay marriage is still off topic, it's not just me who says so, it's courts of law. Don't let these inconvenient facts get in your way, you never do, just as Other posters on thread. The conservative judges are activists? Funny whenever thing don't go your way it's because of conspiracy and activism. Actually judges are just following the law.
The American Civil Liberties Union says it will file a lawsuit to require Michigan to recognize about 300 same-sex marriages performed last month after U.S. District Judge Bernard Friedman's historic ruling declaring gay marriage legal.
McGurk April 15, 2014 at 07:32 pm
Dale Behler: My bad.The post of mine of 6:15 pm today was directed towards Dale M. Who are you? AndRead More why should I consider you?
Daffy Noodnicks April 15, 2014 at 07:40 pm
Also, if there has been an improvement in discourse perhaps it is because Dale M has refrained fromRead More some of his more colorful metaphors when he demeans the heartfelt religious convictions of other people because they might be slightly different than his. He has been been much more indirect lately.
Daffy Noodnicks April 15, 2014 at 08:38 pm
Dale B: you have put forward an enormous amount of vitriol toward "liberals" whoever youRead More think they are, and claim you are being attacked because people disagree with you. Maybe you need to check yourself when you speak of hate mongers.
A $3.3 million project to add access for ice fishing and hunting at Young Lake in the Holly Recreation Area will be funded under legislation signed last week by Gov. Rick Snyder. (Photo: Google Maps)
Mr Rogers April 14, 2014 at 04:19 pm
Works for me. It is too dangerous to ride a bike on the roads anymore, due to people playing withRead More their phones or programming their GPS's or whatever, and not paying any attention to where the car is going.
Dr. Farid Fata, who was indicted on federal Medicare fraud and money laundering charges, billed Medicare more than $10 million in 2012 alone, data released Wednesday show. (Screenshot)
J Todd April 11, 2014 at 09:08 am
Thank you for this story. I hope you will continue to keep us updated on this. My heart breaks toRead More even believe this man is guilty of this
Robert April 11, 2014 at 06:51 pm
In my circle of friends (victims), he is known as "Dr. Fatal-Evil" and as far as gettingRead More anything from his assets, we are told there isn't any assets to get. We got everything we are going to see from him already and I feel the pain everyday of his giving. Thank you GiGi, loved your post here but we are trying to get the laws changed and we need a lot of help to get there. I have stated before on other posts hoping that someone is listening that yes "What if it was your wife, child or any other loved one of yours" that has to go through what we are. How would you react and what would you do? If the politicians or other big shots just thought about that?
GiGi April 12, 2014 at 12:02 am
Robert, Will pray for u and yours! Please keep me posted on your pursuit to get the Laws Change!!Read More Something MUST be done!!!!!
A majority of Royal Oak City Commissioners supported a resolution urging the state to drop its appeal of the gay marriage ruling. (Patch file photo)
Daffy Noodnicks April 10, 2014 at 09:10 am
There are a lot of tangible and intangible things a marriage provides that any other label does not.Read More Withholding these from people who are gay has consistently been ruled to be a violation of equal protection under the constitution. If people want to say a gay marriage is somehow less than a traditional marriage in their house of worship that's their business, but in civil law it isn't fair. The religious argument falls on it's face when you consider that there are Christian marriages being conducted all over this country where it is legal to do so. Just because one persons religious convictions prevent accepting marriage equality, that does not mean it extends to everyone. Does anyone think there are not a lot (probably most) of gay people who are Christian? At any rate, fantasies about the historical influence of any particular religion has no place in civil law in this country, particularly when we are talking about equal treatment under the law. Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. When 300 gay couples were legally married in Michigan the other day, nobody was compelled to participate or attend or bless or host in their house of worship anything they didn't want to. It just meant that some people received the same treatment under civil law that I did when I married my spouse. My marriage is as sanctified and strong as ever, and gay people have been getting married around this country and the world for years.
Daffy Noodnicks April 10, 2014 at 09:14 am
Also, the Michigan marriage amendment specifically prohibited anything like a civil union, so theRead More idea that some people will somehow hold their noses when gay people get something a little but closer to equal treatment doesn't make a whole lot of sense in that light.
Daffy Noodnicks April 10, 2014 at 09:18 am
Marriage equality is the law of the land in many places in this country. Nowhere has any house ofRead More worship ever been forced to conduct a marriage ceremony that it didn't welcome. That is not what this is about. If you don't want it in your church, don't have it. Other churches will. That is the business of churches. The government (civil marriage) should not discriminate where there is no rational basis to do so.
Attorney General Bill Schutte is asking for an expedient hearing by the 6th U.S. Circuit of Appeals of his appeal of Judge Bernard Friedman's ruling that legalized gay marriage. (Getty images)
cookiepro2 April 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm
Ha, Daffy, I was trying to figure out what you meant! Yes, I disagree with the Mozilla firing too.Read More Employers should not be able to dig up who you contribute to, publicize it, and use it as cause for firing, unless they can prove it is significantly detrimental to their business.
Daffy Noodnicks April 8, 2014 at 10:30 pm
Sorry for any confusion. Perhaps I should proofread a little better. I would have deleted theRead More comment and reposted a corrected one, but some people have been thrown into fits of delusional apoplexy over such things, and I would not want to be responsible for that.
John David April 9, 2014 at 09:06 am
Daffy is right that the case involving the photographers is done.  In New Mexico the state lawRead More barring discrimination based on sexual orientation has been affirmed by their supreme court and the photographers have lost the case. As far as law is concerned, issues regarding marriage and discrimination will be settled in court.  The court cases so far indicate that bans to same sex marriage will be found unconstitutional. Individuals or groups can rant and rave, but most of us will accept the decisions.  Even though the court struck down laws against whites marrying non-whites decades ago, some still object and consider the issue open, but the legal matter is settled.  Problems will come up, like the ill considered proposed law Brewer vetoed in Arizona, but hopefully those are few.  At some point it would be nice if Michigan were to enact civil rights legislation affirming protections for LGBT, but obviously not under this legislature. BTW, the Supreme Court's rules generally govern what cases they will take-see Rule 10: http://www.supremecourt.gov/ctrules/2013RulesoftheCourt.pdf
Shoshana Hebshi's lawsuit against Frontier Airlines, the FBI and several other government agencies can move forward, a federal judge in Detroit has ruled. (Screenshot: WDIV video)
B. Dub April 4, 2014 at 12:00 pm
The quote, "They also needed to make sure all my orifices were free and clear" wasRead More something that she wrote - kind of sarcastically - not an actual quote or instruction from the DHS agent. I absolutely hope she prevails. My problem here is with the sensationalism of the headline. The eidtor took an off-the-cuff remark and made it appear as if this is what was actually said to her, or even what was done. Apparently Patch is vying for space with the Weekly World News.
TAASMAN April 4, 2014 at 01:49 pm
I thought it said her offices were free and clear. Now I see the issue.
Nathan Wagstaff April 9, 2014 at 07:29 am
This is so disgusting. The scumbags that reported her probably think they were doing their civicRead More duty, cuz 9/11. And the female officer strip searches her, but the guys get to watch her use the toilet. These people are awful!
President Barack Obama spoke Wednesday at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor about increasing the federal minimum wage. (Screenshot: White House video)
TAASMAN April 5, 2014 at 09:30 am
It's like you people never left high school. Wait Middle School with all the bullying that goes on.Read More Social Media is the place where all Bullies hide behind their so called avatar. I wanted to come back to patch to see if maybe it had changed and was more of a great place to debate issues without the bullying. But to no avail, it has become a bullying stop, but more importantly an entertaining morning with my coffee. It's good to know there are more screwed up people in this world than me.
Shawn Austin April 5, 2014 at 10:45 am
TAASMAN, I have to say that what you said hurts so very badly. It is quite obvious that it was yourRead More sole purpose to belittle and bully those here who are having a conversation you want no part of except to put us down. Please take you and your bullying ways elsewhere. I will now go sit in my room and have a good cry.
TAASMAN April 5, 2014 at 10:51 am
Shawn, thanks for the comments. Have a Great Day.
The Traditionalist Youth Movement filed an amicus brief supporting Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette's appeal of a federal judge's ruling legalizing gay marriage in Michigan. Schuette has denounced the brief. (Photo: Southern Poverty Law Center
Daffy Noodnicks April 2, 2014 at 11:58 am
It is interesting to note that AGs in 7 states, from Oregon to Virginia, dropped their defenses ofRead More state marriage bans. They chose not to defend laws that violates some people's basic rights. I think it is a shame that our AG has chosen to do otherwise.
Jay Charles April 2, 2014 at 01:31 pm
It seems that Dale's favorite champion of religious liberty, while opposed to paying forRead More contraceptives for their employees, has no such compunction about making money from their sale. http://www.okcfox.com/story/25134209/hobby-lobby-offered-employees-chance-to-invest-in-controversial-contraceptions
Pete Rogan April 2, 2014 at 04:18 pm
Bloody hypocrites. Bloody CONNIVING hypocrites at that.
Same-sex couples, some shown at the Oakland County Courthouse, are in a sort of legal limbo after the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals stayed Friday's ruling turning back a ban on gay marriage. (Photo: Getty/AFP, Bill Pugliano)
Daffy Noodnicks March 24, 2014 at 07:16 pm
No legal argument has held up in court against marriage equality, and it won't, because there is noRead More rational basis for it. Your "religious freedom" question is also addressed in the opinion of the court. Why don't you read it? There is also no rational basis for that either.
Dale Murrish March 24, 2014 at 07:23 pm
Perhaps this one judge in this court; not all courts. SCOTUS is hearing the Hobby Lobby case rightRead More now. Different issue, but similar religious objection.
Daffy Noodnicks March 24, 2014 at 07:34 pm
Completely different issues. This issue has been brought up in Texas, Utah, many other states allRead More other the same result.
The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has extended the stay on a ruling striking down Michigan's ban on gay marriage.
Daffy Noodnicks March 26, 2014 at 06:25 pm
Dale: people's rights are not subject to a vote. the waste of tax dollars is the AG trying to clingRead More to this unfair, unconstitutional amendment that was overturned. In addition to the waste of tax dollars, it is causing real harm to Michigan families. Kudos to the people fighting this unfair discrimination and the ACLU for defending them, when the state government is depriving them of constitutional rights.
Taxpayers of Troy March 26, 2014 at 06:45 pm
Yes, Dale, the rule of law is under attack! Citizens used the court system to get an unfair lawRead More overturned! OH noes!!!!1! That's right, only the Jesus freaks get rights in Dale Murrish's 'Merica!
Jen April 6, 2014 at 12:37 pm
The Supreme court ruled it unconstitutional to ban gay people from getting married. That trumps anyRead More vote. Our Federal constitution prohibits the discrimination of gay people now. Equal rights are not up for a vote and it was wrong of them to attempt to do that.
Gov. Rick Snyder sidestepped questions about his own views about same-sex marriage at a news conference Wednesday. (Photo: Bill Pugliano/Getty Images/AFP)
cookiepro2 March 29, 2014 at 07:21 pm
Saw an article on Statistics Canada (like our Census Bureau) on data gathered 2010, five years afterRead More same sex marriage was legalized. Same sex marriages increased by 181.5% while heterosexual marriages increased by 2.9%. Still, same sex couples accounted for only .8% of all couples. Furthermore, for those concerned about the impact on "traditional families", here's more: "Slightly more same-sex couples were male (54.5 per cent) than female (45.5 per cent). Same-sex couples were also younger than opposite-sex couples, with one-quarter of homosexual couples under 34 years of age and only 6.2 per cent over the age of 65. Only 17.5 per cent of heterosexual couples were under 34 years of age, while 17.8 per cent of couples were over 65. Far fewer same-sex couples had children at home. Only 9.4 per cent of same-sex couples had at least one child at home while 47.2 per cent of heterosexual couples had families. Lesbians were almost five times more likely to have a child at home than gay males. Although the 2011 Census paints a more diverse image of the Canadian family, the country’s family portrait still remains a married mother and father and their two children."
cookiepro2 March 29, 2014 at 07:30 pm
Here's a link to the article:Read More http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/09/19/canada-marriage-census-2011_n_1896155.html I now think it is better to go with "marriage" route with gay couples rather than creating some kind of "civil union". Because there are already substantial hurdles in place to dissolving marriage, it is not something to be taken lightly, and that should be the same regardless of gender.
Daffy Noodnicks March 29, 2014 at 11:37 pm
Here's a funny idea: perhaps gay people want to get married for exactly the same reasons as everyoneRead More else. I would venture a guess that most would not see it as a tax dodge. I certainly didn't when I was fortunate enough that Mrs. Noodnicks said yes to me.
Michigan's Democratic congressional district asked U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to clarify the federal status of same-sex couples married after the state's ban on gay marriage was declared unconstitutional, but before the ruling was stayed.
John David April 3, 2014 at 05:05 pm
You've got to be taught To hate and fear, You've got to be taught From year to year, It's got to beRead More drummed In your dear little ear You've got to be carefully taught. You've got to be taught to be afraid Of people whose eyes are oddly made, And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade, You've got to be carefully taught. You've got to be taught before it's too late, Before you are six or seven or eight, To hate all the people your relatives hate, You've got to be carefully taught! 1949 South Pacific, Rodgers and Hammerstein
Jay Charles April 4, 2014 at 05:04 pm
Yes, John David, prejudice has to be learned, whether it be directed against blacks, Jews,Read More Christians, Muslims, gays, Polish, Germans, Italians, Hispanics , etc. Apparently RG has done a very good job of teaching his son to hate.
John David April 5, 2014 at 03:52 am
Prejudice and hate, RG, is old stuff. Thinking a kid can look at two men, assume they areRead More homosexual (how clever he knew) and claim they were unnatural is amazing. But, hate, despite what many try to teach, seems to live on in many way. Racial "traditions" are still clung to many places, like some southern public schools that have few whites because prejudice drives whites to private ones, but are amazingly run by white dominated school boards. There is always hope with each new generation, though. Maybe your son can be taught and learn tolerance, if he's naturally incapable of acceptance. Here's a story about lingering "traditions" clearly stemming from racial prejudice, where a new generation shows an older one what is obviously right to most of us. Bet that someone will say it's "unnatural". http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/04/living/integrated-prom-wilcox-county-georgia/index.html?hpt=hp_c3
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said Friday that legally married Michigan gay couples are entitled to federal benefits. (Patch file photo)
V March 28, 2014 at 02:51 pm
Good. I know a couple who got married in our county. Glad that the feds will recognize theirRead More marriage.
gregg phillips March 30, 2014 at 09:13 am
can someone give an example of the federal benefit we are talking about?
Jay Charles March 30, 2014 at 10:25 am
There are a number of federal benefits that apply, depending on circumstances. Jointly filing anRead More income tax return, social security benefits, inheritance taxes, if military a whole range including housing allowances, commissary rights, PX privileges, etc.
McGurk April 2, 2014 at 09:04 pm
Editor: Beth; probably, Thank you for removing my comment.
cookiepro2 April 2, 2014 at 11:43 pm
Jay Charles, your entitlement explanation made me laugh! Dale, thanks for your reply. I have a hardRead More time thinking of marriage as something sacred needing protection, due to the high divorce rate, as high as 50% in some reports; it is already a flawed institution. Letting a small minority attain their wish and give them happiness when it is not hurting anyone else does not seem like a big thing.
John David April 3, 2014 at 03:56 am
Cookiepro, at 2:06 pm you asked what a society is to do [with older, chronically unemployed do] withRead More such citizens, let them starve? In some circles, it's not an unlikely position. Some would say they ought to take action themselves, sell and move, or live in whatever diminished circumstances they find themselves. It is a tough position, complicated, and universal. Look at the various European famines of the 19th century, including the Irish and how the British and Irish reacted or displaced farm and industrial workers, or those who've more recently lost their jobs because of cheap overseas labor. Virtually none affected was really responsible for what happened to themselves. The US and the states do have many safety nets, which some of the hardhearted, hardheaded, or strict "true" belivers of some political persuations, brush off by saying they are Marxist, or socialist, or will make the US the next Greece. None of these safety nets will allow anyone, contrary to some of the hard hearted and hard headed, to live in luxury while collecting a "handout". So, if some find their livelihoods or certain "freedoms" at risk because we are finding a non discriminatory society as required under our Constitution threatened, they really need to decide how they are going to live in that society. Reading comments here, reflecting those reactions, at least reasonable ones, is what makes viewing Patchof most of its value, at least to me.
Why should vultures get all the roadkill? A proposal before the Michigan Legislature would balance things out. (Photo: Beth Dalbey/Patch)
Michael Ritenour April 1, 2014 at 09:41 am
Pete: Y'all must be thuh smartest in yore family, maybe a teachur or a counter guy at thuhRead More Seven-Eleven!
Pete Rogan April 1, 2014 at 01:06 pm
Yup. In fact, Ah'm the representative frum ALEC. We're gonna fix all y'alls laws REAL GOOD.
Mr Rogers April 2, 2014 at 01:55 am
Ooooh Dawgiee! Granny's road kill stew is to die for!!!
President Barack Obama, shown here during the 2012 campaign, plans to visit Michigan Wednesday to build support for increasing the federal minimum wage. (Photo: Beth Dalbey/Patch)
cookiepro2 April 3, 2014 at 12:43 am
Found this FAQ from the Department of Labor on minimum wage exemptions. Duh, on me, there isRead More already an exemption for small businesses. Also, employers can get a waiver for paying full time students minimum wage (though must be 85% of MW). Someone in an earlier post had mentioned about having to pay handicapped workers MW, no, according to this sheet they are exempted too. Also, off topic but interesting, if your child complains that you are violating child labor laws by making them do chores, this is exempted too! Here's the link: http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/q-a.htm
Tom Thumb April 3, 2014 at 09:47 am
Cookie, it is nice to have a rational discussion, thank you also. I agree with your perfect worldRead More idealism, sadly that is not how it will work. Also, before you go off wishing the bonuses would be less carefully think about where that money goes. This is the fun of economics. For full disclosure my degree is in economics. That bonus money gets spent on, lets call them frivolous things. Boats, cars, vacations, stock purchases etc. Those are the very items that employ many many of the people you are talking about. So take 10k away from XYZ corp Vice President and he doesn't take that trip to florida. A made doesn't work to clean his room, a dishwasher doesn't wash the dishes he ate from at the restaurant and so on and so on. Then take this times thousands and who suffers? So the price of the Big Mac goes up, so the dishwasher can still only buy one and he loses hours to boot. It is a fallacy that the economy trickles up. Well, it does, but it is ever so slow compared to trickling down. Another example. Small business owner A gets a tax break of $50,000. He will most likely (history proves this) spend it on his business. So he puts a new roof on his business. 6 guys get a job roofing, 35 guys get a job making the shingles Etc. Even if he puts it in his savings account he will buy stock which supports a company allowing them to borrow more money and the same result.Now contrast that with trickle up theory. A gets 25 more customers and he makes his margin on their purchases. Average margin (what he makes off his product) is not very much. Instead of fixing his roof, he buys a dinner out. Yes it has increased the economy but not the big drivers on employment. Having said that in aggregate, over years he will make more but as we see with our current economic situation it takes forever. A great way to look at an economy is to look at the purchasing power of a dollar. That is what the real people feel. If it's high they are happy and spending money which in turn employs people. If it is low, we get stagflation. The purchasing power and the wages by the way are at their highest during times of economic upswing and full employment. Reagan, Clinton, somewhat Bush II at least in the beginning. Those were the best times for both the poor and the rich. The gap closed! Contrary to Carter, Obama and Bush II after he lost both the House and the Senate and thus the control of the economy the gap widened. My problem with the current Democratic party is they live in an idealistic world of how they want it should be therefore it will be and that is simply not how it works. Proof is in the history books. Look at the Clinton years, he was dragged all-be-it kicking and screaming into fiscal conservatism but it gave him a record of success. His economic policies were more conservative than either of the Bush's.
TAASMAN April 3, 2014 at 11:30 am
@tom Thumb, very well put with a great fact based argument which holds true. Reagan and Clinton hadRead More opposite issues with the other party controlling, but they Lead by following simple economics. At the end of the day economics should be taught every year so that constituents understand the trickle down theory and that it works. Believing a persons theory's with no fact based ideology, is like a cat chasing a dog.
Ferndale Mayor Dave Coulter is officiating at ceremonies Saturday. If couples can't make it then, they're asked to stop by the City Clerk's office on Monday for details. (Patch file photo)
Mr Rogers March 28, 2014 at 09:55 pm
Well, apparently same-sex marriage is legal in 13 countries. But I still think it's not healthy forRead More society. Tradition has a lot going for it, mainly because it works. And the argument about it leading to polygamy cannot be summarily dismissed: "Gay marriage could potentially lead down a "slippery slope" giving people in polygamous and other nontraditional relationships the right to marry. [10] Glen Lavy, JD, senior counsel with the Alliance Defense Fund, argued in a May 21, 2008 Los Angeles Times Op-Ed, "The movement for polygamy and polyamory is poised to use the successes of same-sex couples as a springboard for further de-institutionalizing marriage." [11] In April 2013, Slate published a plea for legal polygamy by writer Jillian Keenan: "Just like heterosexual marriage is no better or worse than homosexual marriage, marriage between two consenting adults is not inherently more or less 'correct' than marriage among three (or four, or six) consenting adults." [71]
Daffy Noodnicks March 28, 2014 at 10:48 pm
Um...Rodgers: just because you found some fringe extremists who share some of the same irrationalRead More rhetoric that you are spewing does not mean I should not dismiss your baseless red herring. I ask again, in any of the growing number of places where marriage equality is the law of the land is there any traction whatsoever for this? Absolutely, no. You are desperately grasping at straws. It is just silly. Are the the people of Massachusetts or Canada clamboring for multiple marriage?
K. Scott March 29, 2014 at 10:22 am
Daffy, we are dealing with the flat earth mindset here. Loving Vs Virginia still has not producedRead More dog/ man marriges or wild polygamous orgys.But it's the exact same argument to deny interracial marriage. How ironic, we all no how that turned out. Galileo is doing a facepalm somewhere.
Protestors gathered outside the Michigan Capitol after the so-called "Rape Insurance Bill" was passed. (Photo: Getty Images)
niteman March 27, 2014 at 01:48 pm
T as in Troof! - Thanks but the credit for that saying goes to The Flaming Lips lyrics in ODE TORead More C.C. (ironically on their "Oh My Gawd" LP)... This man came up to me just the other day He asked me if I'd been born again I told him I didn't think I had That I had been rejected But I think hell's got all the good bands anyway... Keith Jenkins - Take care and good wishes to you in life. However, the truth you have shared is just that: YOUR TRUTH. Not everyone's. Same to all who I differ with on here, I wish you well and no harm despite our differences. After all, didn't some bearded hippie that may or may not have existed preach that same ideology about 2014 years ago (or so it is told)?
Keith Jenkins March 27, 2014 at 02:36 pm
Niteman, Since you attempted to quote Jesus I guess I can't resist one final thought. He did haveRead More a lot to say about truth but I like these best of all: "You shall know the truth and the Truth will set you free"... he was talking about himself. "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by me" john 14:6. Sorry it doesn't sound like a relative truth but real truth by definition is narrow. Best wishes.
Mr Rogers March 27, 2014 at 05:11 pm
Lots of ranting and raving and opposing opinions expressed, but in the final analysis, nobody's mindRead More was changed about anything, so I guess you could say it was just a big waste of time. In the end, the courts have all the power, and they make the rules that we all must live under, weather we agree with them or not. As an interesting sidenote, concerning the Roe v. Wade decision, Jane Roe (aka Norma L. McCorvey) did carry her baby to full term, since the case was still being litigated, and she has since changed her views about abortion, and is now pro-life, and has been since 1995 (YCLIU). She says she felt like she was "used" by two overzealous pro-choice attorneys trying to make a name for themselves. Just sayin'. That is all. Over and out.
Gay couples can now marry in Michigan after a federal judge struck down a voter-backed ban on same-sex marriage.
Dave W March 27, 2014 at 12:49 am
Lee, the point of the historical perspective was to show that marriage has been seen through historyRead More as a contract, not a religious sacrament, which is why it does not compute that religious folks need to "protect the word". I understand that "marriage" is used to describe the religious ceremony/sacrament, but the social institution (as a social contract) came first. I recently attended a heterosexual wedding where God's name was never mentioned, there was no priest or minister (only an officiator), and no prayers were said. The bride and groom are atheists, so there was no religion present. It was a beautiful celebration with 100+ people where the couple declared their love, exchanged their vows, and signed their license. I consider this a marriage, even though I don't think my church does. Should this couple not be able to say they are married, but rather civil-unioned? In order to be married, which church's blessing do they require? Religious folks should swallow their pride and accept that marriage is a social institution that exists outside of their sacraments. When I said "I suppose we could invalidate everyone's marriage in the country and say everyone now has a civil union", that would be the effect of your compromise; since you say every couple has a civil union anyways and that "Laws should be passed to make that the terminology, and drop the word marriage to the realm of solemnization in religious circles". All people who were civilly married in the eyes of the state would now be civil-unioned, and all rights would be extended under those terms, while only those undergoing their religious sacraments could be "married". In order to have your legal rights protected, though, you would need to be sure to have a civil union, which the state would allow your religious leader to officiate.
Lee Jacobsen March 27, 2014 at 02:44 am
Dave, couples can use any terminology they want to express their union, be it civil union orRead More marriage in a church. Both have equal standing. I agree with you that the ceremony can be extremely unique, and still, it is a marriage, and civil union, you can call it both or whatever you want. The State has it's fee for the license so it does not care. A good friend's daughter had an incredible wedding last year, inside a church, where the couple composed all of the music along Star War themes. While she walked down the aisle, Storm troopers stormed in among the many guests, and whisked her away. The groom, waiting at the altar, whipped out his light saber, and a 5 minute battle ensued, with the groom rescuing his beloved. The wedding concluded without further incident. I might mention that the bride, groom, family and many friends were all active in plays, and stage productions, thus the drama. My own wedding was probably unusual as well, as it took place on the ice, with 125 guests on skates, including the minister, the rest in the stands. We wrote the vows and arranged the music, which is pretty common now. Later that evening , it was food , spirits, and medieval dancing with another 300 folk with a traditional string band and caller at Lovett Hall. I would call the ceremony more fun than 'religious', but that is just fine. As as long as the two folk becoming one are sincere in their vows to each other, that is what counts. The rest is window dressing.
Dave W March 27, 2014 at 09:17 am
I completely agree with your 3/27/14 02:44 post Lee, but again, we have never referred to the civilRead More institution of marriage as civil unions. (Both weddings sound like a blast.) Gay folk can call their union marriage and you can call it a civil union, but the state/law should refer to everyone's union the same: it's either marriage or a civil union.
A pay-it-forward tuition plan introduced in the Michigan Legislature would allow students to attend college for free, then pay back their tuition at a fixed percentage per year  to a special fund to help other students. (Patch file photo)
Frank Cusumano March 19, 2014 at 09:23 am
PRESS RELEASE – March 18, 2014 TRUSTEE FRANK A. CUSUMANO, JR. (fn1) MACOMB COMMUNITY COLLEGERead More BOARD OF TRUSTEES APPROVES 3% TUITION INCREASE The Macomb Community College Board of Trustees voted last night, Tuesday, March 18, 2014, on a 3% tuition increase on the College’s students and their families. Trustees Cusumano and DeSantis voted "NO." Trustees Falcone-Sullivan, Jim Kelly, Roseanne DiMaria, and Christine Bonkowski voted "YES." Trustee Connie Bolanowski was absent. On January 13, 2013 the majority of the Board of Trustees voted in favor of a massive tuition and hourly “technology and facility” fee increase (9.6% total) for the 2013‐14 academic calendar year. I voted “no,” as did Trustee DeSantis. Union contracts were then reopened, renegotiated and ratified in a single Board vote on March 19, 2013, that included pay increases, reinstatement of step pay increases, and increases in benefits. Last night the majority of the Board voted in favor of yet another tuition hike that, again, “set the table” to not just fund out the pay increases baked into the contracts, but to generate a surplus for more generous pork. Meanwhile, student enrollment is dropping as are the total credit hours. After careful review of finances of the College, and balancing the interests of the Macomb Community and the unionized and the several non‐unionized employees at the College, I have voted “NO” to the tuition increase proposals and will do so, except where appropriate. Increasing post secondary education cost to struggling students and their families is not appropriate in order to fund out sweetheart pay raises, reinstatement of step pay increases, and benefit increases of the College’s unionized and the few non‐unionized employees. Given the past history of tuition increases — followed by pay and benefit increases — I can only conclude that the increases are, directly or indirectly, at the behest of the unions. This is a short‐sighted and a gross overreach by the unions that jeopardizes the core mission of the College. Previous increases, including tonight’s proposed 3% tuition increase for 2014‐15, are quickly followed by pay increases for the unionized College employees. The few non‐unionized employees then tag along and take their taste of pay increases. Last night, not coincidentally, the majority of the Board is also ratified yet another renegotiated union contract that includes a pay raise, reinstatement of step pay increases, and increases expenditures for union employee benefits. I voted "NO." The core mission of the College is to serve the students, and the Macomb Community, not the unions. The interests of the students and the community must be balanced with the interests of the hard working unionized employees. Of course they want more; everybody does that works for a living. It’s human nature to want more. But both sides need to be equally and fairly represented at the table in order for the system of checks and balances to work. That balance is theoretically struck by the Board of Trustees; however, I see no evidence of such a balance at the College. fn 1 The opinions expressed in this press release are the opinions of Frank A. Cusumano, Jr., and do not represent the opinions of the Macomb Community College Board of Trustees or the Macomb Community College.
Two nurses from Hazel Park argued in a lawsuit before U.S. District Judge Bernard Friedman that Michigan's same-sex marriage ban prevents them from adopting children together. (Patch file photo)
Pussita Hussy March 21, 2014 at 02:13 pm
Polygamy is against the law because the majority of the old Puritan taliban thought mormans are aRead More cult and crazy.
Pussita Hussy March 21, 2014 at 02:14 pm
Polygamy MAY suggest a fear of lack of free will which is the strongest of the weak cases againstRead More it.
Jay Charles March 23, 2014 at 05:32 pm
Robert ... the problem is that Michigan's Constitution grants special rights to married couples,Read More e.g. taxation, adoption, controlling health issues, etc. and denies these rights to gay couples. Judge Friedman's decision makes it perfectly clear that this discrimination is unconstitutional.
Ballot initiatives to legalize or decriminalize pot could show up in a dozen local communities in November. (Patch file photo)
Dale Murrish March 17, 2014 at 08:15 pm
He was anointed for burial:Read More http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/John/Jesus-Is-Anointed-Bethany NOT with weed....
Michael Bugard March 18, 2014 at 01:14 pm
Religion is the deadliest of addictions. As Marx said, "opiate of the masses."
Michael Bugard March 18, 2014 at 01:15 pm
The problem with religion is that if you legalize it, you get more of it. We should tax theRead More "Hell" out of all religion.
Michigan's Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore became a federally protected wilderness under legislation signed by President Barack Obama. (Photo: sleepingbeardunes.com)
Mike Warren March 15, 2014 at 11:18 am
I have a 4 bedroom home available for vacation rentals minutes from the Dune climb
MaryLynn Bertetto March 15, 2014 at 11:31 am
How can I check out the house in order to rent it?
Nathan Wagstaff March 17, 2014 at 11:58 am
This is awesome. We should protect this beautiful place.
In a Detroit News letter, Julie Boonstra defends claims she made in a Koch Brothers-backed ad that Obamacare is making her cancer treatments unaffordable. (Screenshot: Americans for Prosperity ad via YouTube)
Christine Orman March 20, 2014 at 01:24 pm
@Tom Thumb, thank you for addressing that. After the facts of what obamacare{aka ACA} were coming toRead More light it occurred to me that who was benefiting most from obamacare was the insurance companies. Because now there is a federal law forcing every single American person to have to purchase their{insurance companies} product. It just wasn't making sense to me that no one else was seeing this. I just kept hearing that we needed reform so badly because these big bad insurance have been doing such horrible things like denying coverage because of a preexisting condition. Which I thought to be odd because I've had a preexisting condition since I was 3 and I've had over a dozen different insurance companies, never denied, and I know of so many others with preexisting conditions and they've never been denied either. Not saying it's 'never' happened, but I wouldn't say it was ever a big problem. Some people act like you have to have insurance in order to get medical care/treatment. I've known a handful of people who did not have medical insurance. My adult child was no longer covered on our police when they turned 19. That was 10yrs ago. 10 yrs now with no health insurance. When they needed to see our doctor. Doctor charged less because they had no insurance. The one time they needed medicine doctor had free samples, most all doctors offices do, so no cost there. There is a free clinic for the working people who do not have health insurance here in Wyandotte, all doctors , staff are volunteers. The one time my child was washing dishes, glass broke, finger was cut. Child went to urgent clinic nearby, was seen by doctor, cut was cleaned,received a stitch, and tentinus shot...total cost ... $69. Child doesn't smoke, drink heavily, lives a healthy lifestyle. In 10yrs number of times needing doctor/medical care less than 5. Those hundreds, now thousands of dollars that would have been wasted paying to an insurance company every month has been saved should there be an unexpected medical issue resulting in more care. But that choice has been taken away now. Who benefits.....insurance company. I would be curious though. How many of these politicians that pushed for and voted for obamacare have a personal interest in an of the insurance companies. Also, I've noticed, it was first boasted as 'obamacare' ... now all of a sudden every single pro obama person will only refer to it as ACA. Yes that is what it is, but sometimes people use either or, with exception to obamalovers ;-)
K. Scott March 20, 2014 at 09:49 pm
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because ofRead More the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein We have real problems in this country, and we need serious people to work through them, or we will have political unrest unseen since the inner-city riots in the 60s. The Koch brothers have had their 15 minutes, but their time is up, and the 2016 election promises to send a message from the hinterlands that "the times have already changed." The kind of America the Koch twins envision is not a democracy, nor a balanced capitalist system. Do the Koch twins think they are Christians? What would Pope Francis think of their past actions, and future plans? I would hazard a guess that Pope Francis would opine: "Greed is not good...not now, not ever." So good people, eat what Americans for Prosperity is feeding you, it seems to fill your souls well enough.
Tom Thumb March 21, 2014 at 10:11 am
You talk a lot about the Koch brothers but nothing about Peter Lewis? Same amount of money, same adsRead More but Dem. side. Plus what of the Government spending a billion dollars on their own ad campaign that are just spreading the lies of the ACA? Please K, speak to the issues not the noise because both sides are equal in that stuff.
The Abortion Insurance Opt-Out Law, passed by the Republican-controlled Michigan Legislature last year, means that women who haven't purchased insurance riders won't be covered for abortion services.
madelefant@gmail.com March 25, 2014 at 05:25 pm
It is interesting when people infuse religion with political legislation. Jesus was clear about thatRead More issue. Separation of Church and state was his proclamation. "Render unto Caesar those thing's that are Caesars, and unto God, those thing's that are God's." When you mix your religion with the state you become complicit in the crimes of the state and thus you take God's name in vain.
Dale Murrish March 25, 2014 at 05:48 pm
That's a twisting of Scripture I've never heard before. "Render unto Caesar those thing's thatRead More are Caesars, and unto God, those thing's that are God's" means that government has its sphere and the church has its sphere. The church can and should have input on moral issues. Do you object when churches get involved in social causes you agree with?
Luther's Fan March 25, 2014 at 06:09 pm
Good point Dale. Many laws involving encroachment are based on the commandments. Thou shalt notRead More kill, steal, commit adultery... still have their place in the civil and moral realm.